There are a lot of posts about PvP and stuff on the blogosphere lately and while I have no intention to touch on the “balance” debate, it has got me thinking a little about PvP in general and how my personal feelings towards it have sort of changed.
When I was leveling my first character, I liked battlegrounds, a lot. Anytime I got to a level that ended in 7, 8, or 9, I would effectively stop leveling for a good few weeks so I could spend lots of quality time in battlegrounds. It was fun. Alliance always lost. I loved it anyway. I did Alterac Valley over and over and over again for Ice Barbed Spear, it took like twelve games before Alliance actually won. It was exhilarating.
I got to 70 and while I was mostly doing instances at this point, I decided that I was sick of staring at Valanos’ Longbow and decided to grind honor and marks for a super shiny PvP bow. Later I found out that the bow didn’t have particularly good stats for PvE, but no matter, it was pretty and I was a noob, and I wanted it.
This is where my experience with PvP started to sour. See, not only does Alliance on Bloodlust absolutely suck at BGs (or did, back then, I dunno if they still do), but premades were rampant. 99% of the time you got into a game, you were against a premade, being camped in the graveyard or the little floaty island in Eye of the Storm. Now, because I was super stubborn and thought premades ruined the PvP experience, I never participated in them. Unfortunately, everybody else, well, did.
I got that bow. I got it after weeks of drearily being graveyard camped by premades. Weeks of dreading queuing up for another resounding AV loss that consisted of me repeatedly being demolished by people that were decked out in five million resilience. Weeks of queuing in and randomly winding up as the sole Silver Hand player in an otherwise “hardcore PvP server” premade and being taunted and spammed the entire time with “LOL RP SERVAR” which would often even segue into sexist remarks. It was an awful experience. I longed for the days of pre-70 battlegrounds which were fun and exciting. I actually did a lot of battlegrounds on low-level characters to make up for it, but it wasn’t the same somehow, because I knew that those characters would eventually hit level 70 and battlegrounds would die again.
I can’t remember when the new anti-premade change (aka BEST CHANGE EVER) came about. But I’m pretty sure it encouraged me to do enough PvP that I wound up with some Merciless Gladiator gear, for the express purpose of having PvP gear when I wanted to PvP. I figured, hey, if you can’t beat the people with five million resilience, join ’em! But by that point it was sorta too late. I was tired of PvP. My friends and I were having a blast in heroics and Kara and that sort of eclipsed battlegrounds as “my thing”. Once I had all my PvP gear, I actually PvP’d, like… twice, maybe. Once was in an arena and I hated it so never went back. But yeah, it was silly. All dressed up and no interest in going anywhere.
So then we get this expansion. I get to 80. I do a ton of Heroics and Naxx a million times. My “PvP gear set” was woefully outdated but I had absolutely zero motivation to grind for PvP gear again. But one day, I realized that I had tons of extra badges. I pondered what to do with them. Then, on a lark, I bought some entry level PvP gear, donned them and some pants I’d won out of VoA, and headed into Alterac Valley.
Much to my surprise, in the long, long months it’d been since I’d been in AV on that battlegroup… Alliance had figured out how to win. Back when I had been into Battlegrounds, this would have been the happiest day ever. But no… it was just “meh” to me. The magic had somehow gone out of AV. It was actually quite a tragic realization… it depressed me a little. Healing it on my druid was a little more fun and kept my interest for a few hours but then it just became “meh” again.
I’ve never been into Wintergrasp (other than for VoA) or any of the new battlegrounds; I’ve no interest. I know I’m going to get the overwhelming “OMG WINTERGRASP IS SO DIFFERENT, YOU’LL LOVE IT” comments, and it’s probably true, but… I dunno. I just can’t motivate myself to get in there.
Now I want to make one thing very clear, I don’t have anything against PvP, or people who are primarily PvP players, or anything like that. I respect good PvPers and wish I was among them, cause I’m not. And ya know what, the occasional battleground on my lowbie is still fun, especially now that you can get XP for it. World PvP I’m iffy on– I enjoy it if it’s a fair fight, and the whole “contested territory” thing is fun in a prickly-feeling-on-the-back-of-your-neck kind of way, but I don’t and never will understand “ganking”.
But yeah, I figured you all deserved an explanation on why I used to talk about PvP a lot back in the day on this blog, and don’t really anymore.
Someday, though, I maintain hope that battlegrounds will get that “spark” back. I have very fond memories of Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley… and lots of lessons that helped shape me into the hunter I am today. Someday I’m going to go back and they’ll all be just as fun as they were the first time a scrappy little band of underdogs won AV. The first time we had 0/3 flags capped in WSG and Horde had 2/3, and somehow, an hour later, we’d won. The first time an AB game went down to the wire.
I’m eagerly awaiting that day…
I did Wintergrasp a couple times. Meh. I’m not made for PvP, even though, like you, I went through the BG phase (mostly AV).
It does nothing for me.
but I don’t and never will understand “ganking”.
It’s simple. Pathetic, sub-human cretins whose only pleasure is gleaned from schadenfreude do so to get enjoyment the only way they can.
My love of PvP died when they introduced crossrealm battlegrounds. The tiny bit that was left died when they introduced resilience. I used to spend a long long time in BGs while leveling before twinks were the norm, and when you could recognize the same people in 29, 39, and 49 BGs. I even tried to go for rank 14 back in the day but got into raiding when I hit 10.
Pike you invoke nostalgia better than any blogger I’ve come across. I love battlegrounds. Always have. In my early days as Alliance I can remember grinding 2-3 separate characters up to rank 7 or 8 and only enjoying a handful of wins through all of it.
BG’s along with all of their lumpy bits have always been my favorite form of PvP and I’ve happily continued to queue at least once a week hoping to find some of the old spark that I remember from games back in the vanilla days. It’s there – but ever since Arena and resilience were introduced, that spark has been harder and harder to find. Cross realm made things nastier maybe by introducing some real ass-monkeys into the mix – but I’ll take them if it means the queues popping regularly at all hours.
I think some of the changes from 3.2 are going to *help* and they’re the start of something better. Isle of Conquest is a lurch in the right direction as well – even if I could do without all of the vehicle combat. I know “real” PvPers have long despised the more PvE aspects of *old* Alterac Valley – but for me personally – that was *the* battleground to be in for a long time. I *loved* having PvE objectives to take while having to worry about getting chopped up into kodo chow.
I leveled my main (Nelf Hunter) on a PVP server and it sort of sucked. Especially when you have no friends to watch your back. On top of that Horde players are infinitely better than Alliance players (and SW gets raided just about every other day). I’m not that much into PVP even though I love playing FPSes and going online and owning people (I was pretty good back in the day in CoD4 and Halo 3 *brushes shoulder*). As a matter of fact I usually ignore Horde I run across unless they attack me first.
However PVP has its fun parts. I love(d) WG (pre-WG changes of course, even though Alliance seem to control WG a lot nowadays…) and I absolutely LOVE the new BG Isle of Conquest. I very casually BG when I’m bored because it’s a nice change of pace and even though I have some PVP gear in the bank I never break them out when I actually do PVP. I just jump in with my PVE gear and hope to hide behind someone who actually does have PVP gear and pew pew away.
Oof, battlegrounds. I feel like I met the absolute scum of the WoW player base in those godforsaken places. Like the guy from my own faction who followed me around /spitting on me and insulting me as I struggled to figure out how battlegrounds worked and what the hell I was supposed to be doing. The only battleground faction I ever even got past neutral with was AV, and that’s only because it’s very pve-like in its objectives. PvE is where I shine.
Also, getting three-shot by a shaman three levels lower than me ftl.
And that is why Shizu will never have a pretty black war kitty. It’s just not worth putting myself through all that crap. >_>;
Do try the isle of conquest, the new BG at least once. I felt like you and somehow this BG got me loving pvp again!
Remember when people used to put together 40 man crossroads raids? Yeah, that was nice. We got a little bit of that during the zombie infection event. My guild all got together as a zombie pack and gradually made our way across both continents. When we got to crossroads we completely decimated the town and the few lowbies that were there.
They all bitched at us for ruining their gaming experience… Honestly, the new players just don’t get it.
I only gank when it needs to happen, non-RP names on my RP-PvP server warrants a gank in my book.
@ Wridel – Zombie invasion event was one of the best things that has ever happened in game >.>
@ Kordwar – I’ve thought of that, but most people on my RP-PvP server actually seem to have decent names >.>
I suppose I have “ganked” though it always had good reason. For example, if I am on a level 30 toon, and some level 45 or 50 comes and decides to gank/camp said 30 toon. At this point I get my big bad 70+ and lay down the law. >.>
Wintergrasp isn’t anything different from the zergish AV’s you’ve been in already. I didn’t feel anything after playing the new Isle of Conquest either.
The minute I got my lock up to 750 resilience I stopped pvping for some reason, probably the same general reason you didn’t pvp once you had the gear too.
I liked pvp in BC to an extent but I think somewhere along the line after Wrath launched I just stopped caring.
I recently made a new character on a pvp server though so we’ll see if that changes my views.
Totally enjoyed this post. I think one of the reasons we can keep playing this game for as long as we do is that our focus can change back and forth from month to month, year to year. What we enjoy about the game can come and go 🙂
I feel ancient; I can remember PvP from before BC, and in many ways I felt happier PvPing back then. I will say the means of attaining gear is much, much better now than it was in the past; the battlegrounds themselves, though, seemed better back then. AV just feels like a mindless rush to reach the enemy general first, I’ve fought battles there without actually fighting a single player. Early AV games were truly insane in how long they took, but today AV only takes about ten minutes, and people complain when it takes longer. I also can’t count all the times I’ve heard in AB “lol, just let them 5-cap.”
I ask, where would the Spartans be if they said “lol, just let them 5-cap”?
Cooperative groups seem rare these days, which also makes me sad. It was one reason I actually went to partial pre-forms, though we were never serious enough to camp battlegrounds as 10 or 15-man groups for hours. PvP is far, far more fun when those involved work together, and moreso when you do it with your friends.
Some of my fondest WoW memories apart from the first time xploring the beautiful WoW world itself, are from my PvP days when I used to do battlegroupds and kick ass like there was no tomorrow, back in BC. Sadly after all the LK changes to the hunter class and overall PVP, i never got that mojo back, but hope to get back into it someday! I had a lot more to say but since your blog hates me and wont let me post anything longer than a few sentences, i’ll just say: another thought provoking post from you =)
One reason for ganking, on an established PVP server, is that people assume every lowbie is an alt, and that if they gank them once or twice, they’ll switch to their main and bring friends, and epic battle will ensue. Which is actually pretty reasonable, because it happens a lot.
With my guild tag, I get ganked a lot, because we’re known for bringing it in world PVP. Sometimes it’s someone who’s a jerk, but a lot of times it’s from one of the “rival” guilds on the Alliance side, and I know they’re just looking for some PVP action.
Which is not to say that there aren’t people who gank because they can act like jerks — I could list several on both sides from my server — but for the most part, people who gank are looking for a fight, not an easy kill. (Plus it’s always hilarious when someone’s on the roof in a lowbie town ganking, and you show up and they don’t realize you’re in the 70s or 80s until it’s too late. WorldDefense channel, you make life so much more fun.)
P.S. I’m pretty sure nothing anyone does in a video game makes them “sub-human.” :-/
Ooh gosh, I had completely forgotten about the “7, 8, 9” levels when levelling. As someone who generally doesn’t enjoy PVP, I used to love popping into Arathi Basin at the higher end of the level ranges. I had a love/hate relationship with AV (loved it in general, hated it with a passion when trying to earn my Ice Barbed Spear and we were losing miserably as alliance). But yeah, the spark went out of it for me as well.
I guess when people first try battlegrounds they are levelling and trying new things and having fun. Once you reach the level cap, PVP gets “serious”. Although there’s twinks at lower levels, I guess when you’re at level cap, effectively everyone is a twink. It’s pretty intimidating to a casual PVPer.
It took me a long time to try Wintergrasp. I tried it once and found it rather fun, but I didn’t find it so much more fun than other battlegrounds. It seems it’s better balanced, but otherwise… *shrugs*
Alterac Valley is nothing like it used to be. It’s just a means to an end now. The honor gains are fantastic, but the game play is a race to the finish line.
I miss the old days before x-realm when Ivus and Lokholar would actually get summoned now and again. It was also much more interesting when you were familiar with most of the opposing players. The tense rivalries were great.
I still enjoy WSG and AB, but AV is all but dead to me. SotA is interesting, but I’m not a huge fan of the siege engine warfare. WG is like AV in that I’m sort of indifferent to it. I just like the honor gains and badge rewards. 🙂
I’ve only tried the new BG once so far, so I can’t pass judgment on it yet.
right, i leave the normal names alone. Names like “DKxxnelf” “stabsu” ect. I will drop from the sky to 2 shot that.
Unfortunately, Bloodlust Alliance still sucks most of the time. They get better on battleground holiday weekends, but you’re still pretty hard pressed to win WSG or (especially) AV.
I’ve never really been a big PvPer, I have my moments, sometimes I’ll PvP my little heart out, and currently I’m trying to make myself PvP purely for the tabards, but… I just find it too boring. And no.. WG is not different to a BG, except more laggy (guess they fixed that now?) Purely and simply don’t hugely enjoy hunter PvP, isn’t the same as working out how to PvP as a shadow priest, or melting faces with an unholy DK.
I PvP every once and a while, actually. Did some 20s AB the other day, and met someone from a RPPVP server who actually seemed to so far like my server and has come join me. xDDD;; I was playing my Troll Shammi. It felt good to win. Until the scary PvPers got up. ._.;
As for the whole, “LOLRPSERVER” thing, I always think that people will do that with me and my friends whenever we do BGs, mainly because we’re not that great due to it being a Normal server, yet you get these great PvPers in Shadowburn (Greymane’s BG) from ones like Kalecgos, and go, “Man… OHWELL.” xD I have a bad habit of going into BGs at lower levels JUST to annoy the hard-core PvPers, and make them work for their game. 😛
I’ve actually found out, that Silver Hand is in the same BG as Aman’Thul, the server I have my 80 Hunter on. 🙂
(As for Battlegrounds I actually like… I love defending in WSG now (Hated it back in the day when I loved AB, which I don’t like as much now. o_O) AB is kind of meh, depending on my character. 80 Ele Shammi + Lumber Mill + Thunderstorm = Flying Hordies! 😀 AV is kind of meh for me too. If I don’t get stuck up at the Alli base when it’s under attack, I’m good. xD; EotS… I hate it without some friends. I hate it. During Children’s Week, I did it as Boomkin, and was pretty high in Honor, but 15-20 lost games before I could leave cause I got my achieve finally kind of bugged me. :[ SotA, I’m also not fond of… Might be due to the fact I don’t get it, or it might be because Alliance always starts first and I dislike getting Pewpew’d by casters and whatnot sitting on that wall where I cannot hit them. (COWARDS!) The new BG however, IoC, I love. I find that fun, it might be because it combines ideas, or it might just be that when you actually have the airship, you get to jump off it very spy-like. Stealthing while falling just makes it even better. xD; Just watch out for those, “LOLRPSERVER” people in IoC now. I went Docks once, because I knew Hangar would get overrun like always, and got someone say in the BG Chat, “SOME1 WENT LOLDOCKS.” *shrug*
I encourage EVERYONE to try out the new “post 3.2” low-level BGs. The twinks have all but dissapeared already, and the match-ups recenty (at least in my brackets) have been pretty fair.
Now sadly, when you are outnumbered 15 to 5.. you are still gonna lose most of the time… BUT KEEP IN MIND that winning levels players faster (and therefore pushes them out of your current bracket faster). So a week from now, the balance will likely shift and you could be looking at 15 versus 5 in your favor.
The new experience thing has pretty much de-stagnated the whole bracket system.
I’ve never been big into PVP, myself. I just don’t feel like I have the skill set for PVP. Plus I definitely do not have the patience for it.
I only PVP once in a blue moon nowadays. Mostly the PVP achievements for the various world event metas (I actually kinda enjoyed the Children’s Week one. The WSG I was in to get mine done in we actually played out while doing the achievement and ended up winning it, I think.) and idly working on getting the PVP mounts for the 100 mount achievement. :3
Then again, not much in WoW is keeping my attention lately. I log on to do dailies (cooking, fishing and JC) and raid and that’s about it. I can’t even get myself to do the Tourney dailies even though I want the pony for the argent squire and I’d like some of the mounts.
I love pvp – not necessarily good at it but I do enjoy it. Even good world pvp, although I rarely will initiated – the red=dead, but defend all the way down the line!
BGs – when it’s in new bracket, half the time I’m like watching what my opponent just hit me with more than fighting! Still learning all the other classes spells!
Post 3.2 has brought it back with a vengeance, as I’m thoroughly enjoying xp gains while in BGs.
The higher level BG’s are interesting, although I’m not enamored with WG as much as I here about it – probably my least favorite overall. IoC is still a bit crazy but energizing – parachuting into the base – too fun! SotA its okay, I’ll queue for AV, AB or Warsong over it though.